Episode 270 – Uncanny Avengers 1, Multiversity Guidebook, The Dying and the Dead, Alex And Ada 12, Jungle Book Fall of the Wild 2, Batman 38!

3amigoslogoJohnny Destructo, Ambush Bug, and Optimous Douche review this week’s books: Uncanny Avengers 1, Multiversity Guidebook, The Dying and the Dead, Alex And Ada 12, Jungle Book Fall of the Wild 2, Batman 38!

Also: listener emails, voicemails and @$$terpiece Theatre!

Take a listen and then feel free to comment below if you agree or disagree, or email us at info@poptardsgo.com!

Here are the time stamps, since we tend to ramble:

Voicemail – 01:20
E-Mail – 10:20
Uncanny Avengers 1 (Rick Remender, Daniel Acuna) – 18:37
Multiversity Guidebook (Grant Morrison, Marcus To, Paulo Siqueira) – 24:11
@$$terpiece Theatre – 34:33
The Dying and the Dead (Jonathan Hickman, Ryan Bodenheim) – 36:19
Alex And Ada 12 (Jonathan Luna, Sarah Vaughn) – 43:00
Jungle Book Fall of the Wild 2 (Mark L. Miller, Luca Claret) – 53:52
Batman 38 (Scott Snyder, Greg Capullo) – 01:00:34

You can find JD’s stuff at: www.JohnnyDestructo.com and tweet at him @poptardsgo
You can find Mark at www.aintitcoolnews.com and @mark_l_miller
You can email Optimous Douche at RobPatey@comcast.net

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16 Comments to “Episode 270 – Uncanny Avengers 1, Multiversity Guidebook, The Dying and the Dead, Alex And Ada 12, Jungle Book Fall of the Wild 2, Batman 38!”

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  1. Homer Sexual says:

    I am going to try and send a voicemail cause I think it will increase my odds of getting on the air, but my basic message is….

    SCREW CONTINUITY!!!!!

    Although I remember being angry about the out of character behavior in Civil War and Avengers Disassembled, I have come to realize that continuity is pointless and even destructive… the phrase “trapped in amber” is synonymous with ongoing continuity.

    What comic with long-term continuity is interesting? Pretty much everything good is limited. Y The Last Man went on a long time, but it was finite and awesome. Invisibles, We3, All-Star Superman, the llist of outstanding limited series goes on and on….

    OTOH, Walking Dead is still popular and in continuity, but is it good? I don’t know cause I got bored a long time ago.

    Avengers, X-Men,Justice League, etc… they all have to reboot and change to try and stay fresh. Corporate is stuck because the characters are iconic but that limits how long their stories can be told. No novels go on as long as comics do. Even Harry Potter had, what? 7 or 8 books?

    In the movies, James Bond is now going to be black, upsetting some people but also bringing new interest to the character.

    I don’t care what is done to anyone at this point, as long as it’s interesting. Reset as much as you want. Hell, if DC and/or Marvel wanted to reset every single series each year,I’d be all for it. I think it would make for better stories.

  2. Homer Sexual says:

    PS Ambush Bug, although the second Jungle Book wasn’t quite as good as the first, it was still way better than most any other comics out there. I think it was JD who said he isn’t interested in Jungle Book so he isn’t the target audience. Ummm… well, who is really interested in Jungle Book? I can’t imagine there are many people in that demographic. AICN turned me on to a book with animals that are more interesting than most humans, mixed with a sympathetic human protagonist.

    JD didn’t seem to know much at all about Jungle Book, not even realizing that he read the second series, not the first. So that’s kinda disappointing. Especially since JD usually shares my teen-age girl in an older guys body kind of taste.

  3. Matt Adler says:

    Continuity is essential to feeling as though the characters are real. Our own lives don’t get reboots, so we’re not going to relate to or empathize with characters if their lives can so easily be reset.

  4. j.goodwin says:

    Continuity is fine until writers are locked in by it to the point that they can’t write a good story.

    Continuity is a writer tool to improve characterization and provide plot jumping off points, but if it is a straightjacket, then you’re missing the chance to tell lots of other awesome stories.

    It’s also a problem if you’re saying that everything the company has published has to remain in continuity all the time. Not every story has to refer to every other relevant story, we don’t need freaking footnotes everywhere again (the occasional footnote is helpful, but there was a point where the X books were practically more footnote than art).

    Sometimes past and current stories are just plain bad. Editorial crews change, sometimes for the better, and they clean the deck or just drop stories that aren’t going anywhere. If you read outside of comics, you see it there too. Sometimes it can be done in an elegant way, and sometimes it’s just another bad story that you have to get past before something decent can come out of it.

  5. JD (Host) says:

    “I don’t care what is done to anyone at this point, as long as it’s interesting. Reset as much as you want. Hell, if DC and/or Marvel wanted to reset every single series each year,I’d be all for it. I think it would make for better stories. ”

    One one hand I agree with you…well, one hand and 4 fingers. But I also respect something that has been able to keep going and building…like Invincible. And I grew up on the Wally West FLASH, but this new Wally West just doesn’t interest me, at least not yet.

    “JD didn’t seem to know much at all about Jungle Book, not even realizing that he read the second series, not the first.”

    Actually Bug was mistaken on that one. I’ve read issues of all volumes of the comic.

    @Matt:
    “Our own lives don’t get reboots, so we’re not going to relate to or empathize with characters if their lives can so easily be reset.”
    I think that’s more (for me) about people dying and coming back. I didn’t care when Spidey died, I didn’t care when Wolverine died, etc…Continuity would be more interesting to me if that continuity included the dead STAYING dead.

  6. JD (Host) says:

    @J. – One of the things about continuity that bothers me though, is when it’s ignored. Spider-Man’s daughter, that MJ gave birth to during the much-maligned Clone Saga is a good example of this. They have the baby, but they think it is still-born, when in reality it is stolen by someone working for Norman Osborn…the characters aren’t aware that this has happened but the readers do.

    Then they just…….ignore that it ever happened. Even BEFORE One Moment in Time and the deal with Mephisto…there was an interaction where someone tells Peter, “well you don’t know what it’s like to be a father” and Pete goes “he’s right”….That’s really frustrating as someone who has been reading for a lonnnng time. All I would want is SOMETHING dealing with it. Have them say “well that was hard for us, but we just have to move on, let’s never speak of it again.” or something.

    If there is going to be continuity, than have continuity.

  7. Homer Sexual says:

    Matt Adler: I guess its like comparing a long-running TV series to movies or miniseries. Or maybe comics are more like soap operas that go on forever with a lot of the same characters and an attempt to maintain continuity but increasingly forced and ridiculous developments.

    I am hard-pressed to think of any long-running TV series that was able to maintain quality. Friends? Sopranos maybe but it wasn’t even all that long and had lost viewers. Again, Walking Dead? the longest running series on TV is the Simpsons, and it has no continuity whatsover.

    Limited series, IMO, tend to be much better. But that’s just my preference.

  8. Matt Adler says:

    Continuity doesn’t mean they have to reference every single story that came before; it just means that you don’t actively contradict what’s been established, like in JD’s example. I will also point out that one of the big reasons the Marvel movies have been so popular is their excellent use of continuity.

  9. Ambush Bug says:

    Exactly, Matt. If Marvel movies all of a sudden begin trying to redo something and act as if it never happened (which when one of their movies bomb that is exactly what they’ll do), it’s going to be leaving a lot of people scratching their heads.

    Having reviewed comics since 2001, I was one of those who was pissed at the Aunt May slut retcon, and the weird redux to Black Panther, the horrific Absorbing Man arc on Hulk, and the countless other changes that were made simply because the new people writing the characters didn’t take the time to do a tiny bit of research and ignoring of anything that had come before.

    Ten years later, it’s still being done and a whole new set of fans get to feel how I did in 2001. I guess it just means these books are not for me anymore as both companies seem stuck in redo mode. I mean how many times do we get to experience the wonder of Batman and Spider-Man’s origin. I think the lackluster performance from the last Spidey movie redux is proof that Marvel’s films have less than five years to go before it’s going to have to pull a do over. RDJ ain’t no spring chicken anymore.

  10. Ambush Bug says:

    Everyone disses continuity until it effects a story the care about. And everyone has a favorite story.

    Seeing Kraven come back to life and worse yet seeing what they did to the Son of Kraven in those crap miniseries was the one for me.

  11. Ambush Bug says:

    Everyone disses continuity until it effects a story they care about. And everyone has a favorite story.

    Seeing Kraven come back to life and worse yet seeing what they did to the Son of Kraven in those crap miniseries was the one for me.

  12. Matt Adler says:

    See, I don’t think they have to do a reboot to recast. It’s like when they change artists on a comic; Steve Ditko’s Peter Parker doesn’t look like John Romita’s Peter Parker who doesn’t look like Todd McFarlane’s Peter Parker, but it’s still the same character with the same history.

    They made a lot of continuity blunders in the early 2000s, and Peter David came up with an excellent explanation for it in his Captain Marvel run. Overall, however, I think they took the right approach to revitalizing their universe; there wasn’t a wholesale reboot or massive retcons (at least until OMD). They just had fresh takes on characters like JMS’s ASM, Morrison’s New X-Men, Milligan’s X-Force/X-Statix, Brubaker’s Captain America, the early Ultimate Universe and Marvel Knights books, Waid’s Fantastic Four, and so on. I think eventually they got complacent though, and instead of continuing to innovate, they resort to the lazy option of the reset button.

  13. Homer Sexual says:

    Bug, I used to agree with you. That is one reason I mentioned Avengers Disassembled. I was a big fan of Scarlet Witch, and Scarlet Witch and Vision as a couple. Loved when they got married, had their 12-issue series that ended with their kids, etc. HATED when Vision was taken apart and turned into a robot and really, really hated when Wanda went crazy and killed people and got rid of all the mutants, etc. I complained about it on AICN, back when I was a newbie.

    The reponse I got was to get over it. These new stories didn’t affect the old stories I love. I could still go back and re-read them. Over time, I realized this was true.

    Also when New 52 Harley Quinn was originally just a skank ho in Suicide Squad, I hated it so much but I still had all my old cartoons, etc of Harley. Of course, Conner/Palmiotti have brought back the old Harley, and for that I am grateful. But even though she has her old personality back (in that book, not in Suicide Squad), all that old continuity is gone.

    I don’t even mind that Wanda and Pietro, two of my all-time favorite characters, are no longer mutants. Is it ridiculous ? Definitely. Will the explanation be super lame? YES! I guess I should get mad about it, but whatever….

    I also loved Kraven’s Last Hunt. But come on, we all must accept the fact that death is never permanent. Although, yes, back then it was more permanent which is probably why it had so much impact.

    I remember being honestly emotionally upset when Angel committed suicide after he lost his wings back in the 80’s.

    That’s another reason limited runs are better. What happens matters. In ongoing runs, nothing means anything.

    Here’s a final example. Illyana Rasputin is one of my favorite characters. Please don’t ask me to explain how she is currently alive and well, or really explain anything in her backstory after she emerged from limbo.

  14. Homer Sexual says:

    PS Matt Adler, you give examples of some really outstanding comics, none of which ran that long and I don’t kn ow how many are still “in continuity.” X-Force/Statix, New X-Men, early Ultimate Universe and Bucky Cap were all really excellent.

  15. Roland says:

    @Homer

    Yea I pretty much feel the same way you do these days. Continuity doesn’t bother that much anymore, maybe fifteen or twenty years ago when I read comics as a young lad it would have. But that was then and this is now and the things I look for in a book are different and so is the comic book Industry.

    And I’ve been thinking about this also, and JD you work at a Comic store right? so maybe you can answer this…but do young kids say 5-13 years old read comics these days? Is that still a huge part of the market? someone enlighten me about this

  16. Matt Adler says:

    Actually, I think most of those had decent length runs, but it doesn’t have to be a long run. My point was, the way to revitalize a franchise is to put creators with new and interesting perspectives on them. And that can be accomplished without a reboot.

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