Ep 109: Spoiler Alert with AICN: Ravagers,
Batman Annual, Superman Family, Grim Leaper, X-Men 29, Hulk 52, Snake Eyes Storm Shadow!

Johnny Destructo, Ambush Bug, Matt Adler and Optimous Douche review this week’s books: RAVAGERS 1, BATMAN ANNUAL 1, SUPERMAN FAMILY 1, GRIM LEAPER 1, X-MEN 29, HULK #52, SNAKE EYES STORM SHADOW 1!

Also, listener emails and @$$terpiece Theater!

Take a listen and then feel free to comment below if you agree or disagree, or email us at info@poptardsgo.com!


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19 Comments to “Ep 109: Spoiler Alert with AICN: Ravagers,
Batman Annual, Superman Family, Grim Leaper, X-Men 29, Hulk 52, Snake Eyes Storm Shadow!”

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  1. kcviking says:

    jd- See, I knew you would figure out the new mic!

    pink- just try to remember when reading Watchmen that it came out 20 plus years ago and the comic landscape was a lot different than it is now.

  2. Pink Apocalypse says:

    Yeah….I first got into comics in the 80’s. But the thing is, I was poor and could buy very little, and on top of that, my selection consisted of a single spinner rack in a grocery store in the small town I lived in.

    So….not a lot of diverse choices at the time. Most of what I read and owned was from old beat up stuff I found here and there growing up, and yard sales and such.

    I did finally read The Killing Joke recently, and….thought it was boring, awkward, and wildly overrated. But I’m not sure if that’s due to the age and quality of the material, or just simply due to the fact that I’ve never cared for Batman….

  3. JD (Host) says:

    @KC, thanks bud!!
    I still think my mic is a little low, but hey, we’ll get there.

    another listener told me today the same thing, Pink…didn’t really see what all the hub-bub was about for The Killing Joke, but when that came out, I thought it was the most bad-ass, perverse Batman story I’d ever read, I loved the backstory for the Joker, and the lengths he went to in order to drive Commissioner Gordan crazy.

    It really hit me to know that this poor man was riding through a horrifying carnival ride, looking at pictures of a homicidal sociopath shooting, paralyzing and then stripping his only daughter naked and taking pictures of her. It stuck with me for awhile after reading it. It still gives me the chills. It was the first time that a Batman tale read like a horror movie for me.

    is the “email” voice better this time around, less creepy?

  4. Pink Apocalypse says:

    Yup! I like echo effects, or whatever that was.

    And, I’m not a fan of the Barbara Gordon horror show. For reasons that might not be immediately obvious.

    Google ‘Women in Refrigerators’. It’s all just another symptom of the machine that’s been too eager to grind us up for too long.

  5. JD (Host) says:

    so would it have been better if it was Jim Gordon’s son?

  6. jaydee says:

    also, I have to say that while I don’t disagree with the whole “Women in Refrigerators” thing, I really don’t think Barbara applies. The shooting was part of her character arc in the long run and she went on to become one of the most (forgive me for this) “handy-capable” and strongest female characters in comics.

  7. Pink Apocalypse says:

    I love you, JD. But you’ve got zero ground to stand on this.

    Go to Wikipedia >
    Search ‘Barbara Gordon’ >
    Scroll down to ‘Batgirl Special and Batman: The Killing Joke’ >
    Carefully read it in full.

    I’m just going to assume you didn’t know any of that. But no worries. I got you covered.

  8. Jaydee says:

    Well since we are discussing opinions, I have my opinion to stand on, and you have yours. I see a lot of people noting Pros and Cons about Babs’ predicament, was there a segment of that article you are referring to specifically? There seems to be a case for both.

    It’s all in your personal outlook, you can either choose to see it as another woman being mistreated and abused or, in this case, a strong female character rising above her obstacles to continue fighting the fight.

  9. Pink Apocalypse says:

    We weren’t discussing what came later. We were discussing The Killing Joke itself, and that’s it.

    You’re either evading or confusing one subject (editorial decisions and writing of TKJ) with another (writers being so profoundly offended by what occurred that they picked up the pieces later). I supported my claim that it’s a wildly-over-praised, and even ugly little piece of work, with quotes from the editor such as ‘cripple the bitch’, and the author himself called it ‘shallow and ill-conceived’.

    DC had no intentions whatsoever for Barbara to have any future. As such, it’s a bit ugly to claim TKJ somehow gets ‘credit’ for anything positive other authors were able to piece together after the fact.

    To put it another way that’s melodramatic but easy to grasp, there’s medical knowledge we’re using today that originated in Germany. But nobody’s about to thank Nazis for it, or suggest we fire up more concentration camps.

  10. kcviking says:

    I tend to agree with you about Killing Joke. I’m not much of a Batman fan either,so maybe that’s why.

    I’ll be interested in reading your reaction after you read Watchmen.

  11. JD (Host) says:

    I didn’t realize “Editorial Decisions” was part of the conversation, I was discussing TKJ as a piece of work and it’s place in the bigger picture. As for the “author itself” saying something negative about his own work, find me an artist that DOESN’T think negatively about his past works and wants to have done better, and I’ll show you someone who isn’t an artist.

    I don’t really have any interest in the he-said she-saids about the behind the scenes antics.

    You never answered whether or not Commissioner Gordon’s son would have been better a better target, a character that no one really cared about, or his …you know..capable and talented, strong, superhero daughter that people have known for decades.

    Or what if it was Robin. That kid was beaten within and inch of his life, and then blown up by the very same character that did these horrible things to Barbara. And Jason Todd DIED from his encounter with the Joker. But that doesn’t matter because he was a Male, I guess?

    The same character went very personally after both a male and a female member of the cast, but Barbara is a problem because she’s a woman. Seems like a strange argument to make.

    People die in comics ALL THE TIME to propel stories or to make heroes BETTER heroes. People dying makes for interesting DRAMA, period, and writers only really have two gender options to choose from.

    Which is more compelling and will pull at the audience’s hearts-strings more, a male or female?

  12. Pink Apocalypse says:

    You’re completely missing the point. It’s about balance, JD.

    It’s a slim minority of female characters that are actually developed and NOT used as simple, objectified plot devices. The vast majority of male characters get the ‘fully developed and empowered’ privilege. Very few don’t. So yes, there’s a dramatic imbalance when one of the rare few developed female characters gets stuffed in the fridge, as opposed to a male character being plucked from the vast, wide and dominant pool of male characters. You’re using a false-parallel argumentative tactic to generate sympathy for the male characters, in an attempt to deflect from the point.

    Does that mean everything should be a ‘hands off’ policy? No. But one would hope for something more than ‘shallow and ill-conceived’. Your dismissing the author’s criticism of his own work out of hand, simply because it supports my view, is bizarre. We’re not talking about ‘he said, she said’. It’s quoting the author himself.

    It doesn’t surprise me that you might be baffled or resistant to what I’m trying to convey. You exist in a demographic, and view the world through a lens, that makes it nearly impossible for you to grasp all the (often invisible) privileges afford to you. And I can’t blame anyone for that.

  13. JD (Host) says:

    As much as we get along, I don’t think you talking down to me because I’m a male is all that great.
    “I can’t blame you for being a man”? Yikes.

  14. Pink Apocalypse says:

    It’s interesting that you would view an acknowledgment of human behavior as somehow ‘inferior’.

    Very interesting.

  15. JD (Host) says:

    Is it interesting?

    “you have zero ground to stand on”

    “you’re missing the point”


    “viewing the world through a lens”

    “impossible for you to grasp”

    I didn’t say I was inferior, I took from your own words that you are talking down to me LIKE I’m inferior.

    The conversation itself was “Very Interesting”, you using negative phrasing to put me down, decidedly LESS so.

  16. Anonymous says:

    ‘I don’t think the Barbara thing applies’ + It was the reason the site was started
    = zero ground to stand on.

    Missing the point, viewing the world through a lens and impossible to grasp are ‘talking down’? Is there any softer phrase than ‘missing the point’ I could use? Is it treating myself as inferior to say that there’s no way I could view the world through the lens of a black lesbian, or that it would be nearly impossible for me to grasp the daily existence of a white, elderly millionaire?

    The stereotype says there’s nothing more fragile than a male ego. Please tell me: how I can make anything contrary to your opinion easier for you?

    Because I specified ‘baffled or resistant’. You clearly indicated which one didn’t apply.

  17. Pink Apocalypse says:

    Here. Let me give you a peace offering.


    Watch it in full. Trust me. Just watch it.


  18. JD (Host) says:

    haha I didn’t realize they made a full length movie!

    so far it’s amazing!

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